Pre-Beta Test
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Shusagi
thetobias
SirShadow
Twoy
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Pre-Beta Test
Twoy Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:23 am
First topic message reminder :
I recommend the 3 titans run a pre-beta test to iron out the process if you have not already done so. The pre-beta should run for about 10 turns.
Titan A--GM.
Titan B--Newbie Side with a level one city and an overlord.
Titan C--Starts at round Turn 50 with a level 4 capital, and two level 2 cities. Just popped his first warlord in his capital last turn and will pop another next turn in one of his level 2 cities and the turn after that another warlord. At least one of the warlords should be a caster. He would also start with about 2,000 upkeep worth of units.
The purpose of the test would not be to see if Titan B can destroy Titan A. The purpose would be to set up a process to run orders.
I recommend the 3 titans run a pre-beta test to iron out the process if you have not already done so. The pre-beta should run for about 10 turns.
Titan A--GM.
Titan B--Newbie Side with a level one city and an overlord.
Titan C--Starts at round Turn 50 with a level 4 capital, and two level 2 cities. Just popped his first warlord in his capital last turn and will pop another next turn in one of his level 2 cities and the turn after that another warlord. At least one of the warlords should be a caster. He would also start with about 2,000 upkeep worth of units.
The purpose of the test would not be to see if Titan B can destroy Titan A. The purpose would be to set up a process to run orders.
Twoy- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Twoy Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:24 am
I think it is more likely that they are items acquired by GK over 100's of turns, and not items fabricated by twolls in the last 20 or 30 turns.SirShadow wrote:We also haven't really seen them try. Also, who do you suppose made all the items parson is now wearing?
Twoy- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Nihila Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:54 pm
You know what? In my last attempt to sorta-kinda resolve this debate, I'll post my guess at Gobwin Knob's normal units.
Gobwin Knob:
Infantry:
Basic Infantry, not really relevant.
Knights: Spidews: 10-7-4-13, Mount, Toxin, Burrowing, Fast, Heavy, 100 upkeep.
[Fluff]
Specials:
A-unit: ???
B-unit: ???
C-unit: Twolls: 12-5-4-3, Fabrication, Builder(Just a buffer special--there were 2 points left over from canon stats)
[Fluff]
D-unit: Red Dwagon: 15-18-10-28, Very Fast, Fire Breath, Mount, Flight
[Fluff]
Naval Units:
Not exactly relevant.
It's entirely possible for Twolls and Spidews to have the specials given, under the current rules. And Spidew can't really be called "Infantry," despite being grouped there... Mounts are really more Cavalry.
Gobwin Knob:
Infantry:
Basic Infantry, not really relevant.
Knights: Spidews: 10-7-4-13, Mount, Toxin, Burrowing, Fast, Heavy, 100 upkeep.
[Fluff]
Specials:
A-unit: ???
B-unit: ???
C-unit: Twolls: 12-5-4-3, Fabrication, Builder(Just a buffer special--there were 2 points left over from canon stats)
[Fluff]
D-unit: Red Dwagon: 15-18-10-28, Very Fast, Fire Breath, Mount, Flight
[Fluff]
Naval Units:
Not exactly relevant.
It's entirely possible for Twolls and Spidews to have the specials given, under the current rules. And Spidew can't really be called "Infantry," despite being grouped there... Mounts are really more Cavalry.
Nihila- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Squeejee Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:06 am
Nihila wrote:And Spidew can't really be called "Infantry," despite being grouped there... Mounts are really more Cavalry.
I think that in Erfworld a distinction that fine is just semantics - there is a specific difference given between a "commander" and a "warlord," for example, but the two words seem to be used interchangeably.
Squeejee- Marbit
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
SirShadow Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:32 pm
Nihila, you know what? The problem with what you're doing is that you're trying to conform Gobwin Knob to our rules instead of it being the other way around. Also, Twolls can be created in a level 1 city, which doesn't fit at all. And Spidews cannot be knights because Gobwin Knob has Spidews in ADDITION to knight-class infantry.
Last edited by SirShadow on Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total
SirShadow- Titan
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Shusagi Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:45 pm
Summing it all up, Twoll fabrication in the comic isn't as powerful as the Fabrication special we have here, and our rule set isn't an exact replica of the actual Erfworld rules anyways. Also, with different sides popping different special units and with us still not really knowing what a "Knight" is (we've never seen any of Gobwin Knob's knights. Or.. Infantry at all really, just uncroaked, spidews, gobwins/hobgobwins, dragons, twolls, and the decrypted) things are clearly more complicated than we're trying to make them.
Shusagi- Gobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
SirShadow Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:47 am
We've seen Hobgobwin Knights, Gobwin Knob knights are probably similar just the 'human' race.
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Nihila Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:06 am
According to what I understand to be the rules, either A/B units can be created in a Level 1 city OR C units can be.
And, sure, why don't we try to make our ruleset conform perfectly to a fairly abstract, changing ruleset from the comic, complete with off-turn action and MK travel assassination exploits and all that. I'll pass on that disaster.
There are at least a hundred places where these rules differ from the comic, but that's actually fine, because it'll ease playing and GM'ing. The real rules are very complicated, and the first rule of rulemaking is to simplify.
And, sure, why don't we try to make our ruleset conform perfectly to a fairly abstract, changing ruleset from the comic, complete with off-turn action and MK travel assassination exploits and all that. I'll pass on that disaster.
There are at least a hundred places where these rules differ from the comic, but that's actually fine, because it'll ease playing and GM'ing. The real rules are very complicated, and the first rule of rulemaking is to simplify.
Nihila- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Twoy Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:22 am
I am perfectly content with using a set of rules that are simpler than the "real rules" of Erfworld. I think the infantry, archer, scout, knight, ABCD rule set functions very well.Nihila wrote:The real rules are very complicated, and the first rule of rulemaking is to simplify.
Twoy- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
HerbieRai Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:22 am
Just throwing in my 2 cents
We can't follow the comics rules to the letter because we don't know them. For example, there have been no rules on navel combat. They may be like we have, where carried units cannot attack and die if the ship dies. Or maybe its like air combat, where everyone has a 1/3 1/3 1/3 chance of living and such, and the units can be picked up by other boats that have room, maybe you can board other ships. There's no way of telling right now. Also, maybe all natural allies are stronger versions of normal infantry, and when you get a natural ally you no longer make normal units, you make them instead, therefore the hobgoblins are actually the knights that GK produces.
Until the comic is finished or rules have been published (which wont happen, at least till the end), we cannot hope to follow the rules because we'd have to restart the game to fit the new rules in, and with longer games that's impractical. We have to write rules that follow as closely as possible and then hope they stand up to the test of time, and realize that differences are going to exist.
That being said, This is a good discussion because we haven't started the game, but I don't think you should let it hold up the test. The units you guys can make specifically shouldn't matter too much. Again, I don't think the point of this test was to find if unit abilities are balanced, but so the GMs can find a streamlined way of getting everything done so the game keeps moving.
We can't follow the comics rules to the letter because we don't know them. For example, there have been no rules on navel combat. They may be like we have, where carried units cannot attack and die if the ship dies. Or maybe its like air combat, where everyone has a 1/3 1/3 1/3 chance of living and such, and the units can be picked up by other boats that have room, maybe you can board other ships. There's no way of telling right now. Also, maybe all natural allies are stronger versions of normal infantry, and when you get a natural ally you no longer make normal units, you make them instead, therefore the hobgoblins are actually the knights that GK produces.
Until the comic is finished or rules have been published (which wont happen, at least till the end), we cannot hope to follow the rules because we'd have to restart the game to fit the new rules in, and with longer games that's impractical. We have to write rules that follow as closely as possible and then hope they stand up to the test of time, and realize that differences are going to exist.
That being said, This is a good discussion because we haven't started the game, but I don't think you should let it hold up the test. The units you guys can make specifically shouldn't matter too much. Again, I don't think the point of this test was to find if unit abilities are balanced, but so the GMs can find a streamlined way of getting everything done so the game keeps moving.
HerbieRai- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Twoy Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:26 am
I thought the test would be over by the time I got back from the holidays.HerbieRai wrote:That being said, This is a good discussion because we haven't started the game, but I don't think you should let it hold up the test. The units you guys can make specifically shouldn't matter too much. Again, I don't think the point of this test was to find if unit abilities are balanced, but so the GMs can find a streamlined way of getting everything done so the game keeps moving.
Twoy- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
SirShadow Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:40 am
Because you are the only one with a holiday :P I haven't waited to change my units because I was waiting for this to get cleared up, I'm just absolutely freaking busy right now.Twoy wrote:I thought the test would be over by the time I got back from the holidays.
SirShadow- Titan
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Shusagi Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:18 pm
SirShadow wrote:Because you are the only one with a holiday :P I haven't waited to change my units because I was waiting for this to get cleared up, I'm just absolutely freaking busy right now.Twoy wrote:I thought the test would be over by the time I got back from the holidays.
I can switch roles with you, you can GM the test and I can build a side (I'm already working on a side just for fun anyways), if you think that'd be easier on you right now given that you're busy.
Edit: Though I crunched the numbers and figured a mountain side could get a Level 5 city by its 30th turn and have a warlord or two by then, building new cities super fast after that. Starting turn 50 with a Level 4 and a couple Level 2s is a little subpar, but it's just a test anyways, so meh. :P
Shusagi- Gobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
thetobias Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:09 am
I have the following suggestion for the pre-beta to make. We let the two Titans compete (using quickplay, preferably via msn or irc client) for the island I mapped in one of the first posts. Both Titans fight for one week or 50 turns, whichever comes later, and start as a normal beginning player would.
This way we get to see if the workload of 2 players/titan works out (and also if late-game works out, since we'll be playing till at least turn 50) or if changes to the games infrastructure must be changed. I'm filling out starting side files using the excel sheet found in the rules document section of this forum and will be sending both shadow's and mine to shusagi, along with my first orders.
This way we get to see if the workload of 2 players/titan works out (and also if late-game works out, since we'll be playing till at least turn 50) or if changes to the games infrastructure must be changed. I'm filling out starting side files using the excel sheet found in the rules document section of this forum and will be sending both shadow's and mine to shusagi, along with my first orders.
thetobias- Head Titan
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
SirShadow Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:35 am
If Shusagi wants to do it instead, that's fine with me.
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Shusagi- Gobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Twoy Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:10 pm
Forget about the pre-beta test. Let's get going with the real game.
Here are my orders.
Turn 1:
Starting Shmuckers: 0
Income: +600
Upkeep: -0
High King Peter: Designate Mine (5 turns left).
Caer Paravel: Produce Scout (1 turn left).
Ending Shmuckers: 600
End Turn
Turn 2:
Starting Shmuckers: 600
Caer Paravel Pop: Scout 1.
Income: +600.
Upkeep: -30.
High King Peter: Designate Mine (4 turns left), Order Scout 1 to move 1 south and circle the city clockwise in an ever widening spiral.
Caer Paravel: Produce Dwarf (2 turns left).
Ending Shmuckers: 1,170
End Turn
Here are my orders.
Turn 1:
Starting Shmuckers: 0
Income: +600
Upkeep: -0
High King Peter: Designate Mine (5 turns left).
Caer Paravel: Produce Scout (1 turn left).
Ending Shmuckers: 600
End Turn
Turn 2:
Starting Shmuckers: 600
Caer Paravel Pop: Scout 1.
Income: +600.
Upkeep: -30.
High King Peter: Designate Mine (4 turns left), Order Scout 1 to move 1 south and circle the city clockwise in an ever widening spiral.
Caer Paravel: Produce Dwarf (2 turns left).
Ending Shmuckers: 1,170
End Turn
Twoy- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Shusagi Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:17 pm
Game hasn't started yet, and when you send orders it'll be privately so that the other players don't see them.
Edit: Also, your upkeep is whack. Overlord probably has standard Warlord upkeep, and it should increase by 30 between the two turns since you add a unit on the second turn.
Triple Edit:
OK, so I'll run the pre-beta test. Twoy, you can be one of the two players. I need one more. I'll get together with the two players on MSN on a day that works for everyone and we'll blow through the first 30ish turns, but once you encounter each other we can revert to forum PMs or email to finish it off.
Edit: Also, your upkeep is whack. Overlord probably has standard Warlord upkeep, and it should increase by 30 between the two turns since you add a unit on the second turn.
Triple Edit:
OK, so I'll run the pre-beta test. Twoy, you can be one of the two players. I need one more. I'll get together with the two players on MSN on a day that works for everyone and we'll blow through the first 30ish turns, but once you encounter each other we can revert to forum PMs or email to finish it off.
Shusagi- Gobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Twoy Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:12 pm
In Dark Arbiter's game the overlord had no upkeep.
My scout popped on the 2nd turn and I paid for it on the second turn. Should I pay for it on the turn before it pops?
My scout popped on the 2nd turn and I paid for it on the second turn. Should I pay for it on the turn before it pops?
Twoy- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
HerbieRai Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:28 pm
I'd be willing to be one of the players. I have time tomorrow afternoon (starting around 10 pm GMT). I know this may be a bit late for Twoy, I'm not sure about you shusagi.
HerbieRai- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Shusagi Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:49 pm
Twoy wrote:In Dark Arbiter's game the overlord had no upkeep.
My scout popped on the 2nd turn and I paid for it on the second turn. Should I pay for it on the turn before it pops?
Misread, thought it was -30 both turns. My bad. And yeah, I guess the rules being incomplete and me having not been around before, I didn't know the overlord was free. Good to know.
HerbieRai wrote:I'd be willing to be one of the players. I have time tomorrow afternoon (starting around 10 pm GMT). I know this may be a bit late for Twoy, I'm not sure about you shusagi.
I'm like GMT-8, so that's actually pretty early. I'll be on MSN: Gotan1_1 (at) hotmail dot com. If both of you are on we'll do the test tomorrow. If tomorrow doesn't work for Twoy, I'm open to suggestions. This weekend would rock because I had barely any homework and am already done, might be busier next weekend.
Shusagi- Gobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Twoy Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:26 am
Edit: 10 p.m. GMT is too late for me. I have to work early Monday morning.
I have an MSN account, but I've never used messenger. I'm troy_darr at hotmail.
I have an MSN account, but I've never used messenger. I'm troy_darr at hotmail.
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
thetobias Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:44 am
Hmmm 11PM CET, I might not be able to stay up late after that. Could we do it an hour earlier? So 9PM GMT?
I'm sorry about the utter lack of response on my part, I've had way to much to do, mostly school related stuff. We can start the first turns of beta as soon as both players come online.
There goes, my side (since shadow destroyed my previous one
)
STORMPEAK
RULER: Queen Eesha, High Lady of the Stormpeaks
FLAVOR: Stormpeak is a great mountainous kingdom populated by the strong and honorable Aven. These bird soldiers favor the high mountains but work equally well on plains.
FAVORED TERRAIN: Mountains
INFANTRY
I'm sorry about the utter lack of response on my part, I've had way to much to do, mostly school related stuff. We can start the first turns of beta as soon as both players come online.
There goes, my side (since shadow destroyed my previous one
)STORMPEAK
RULER: Queen Eesha, High Lady of the Stormpeaks
FLAVOR: Stormpeak is a great mountainous kingdom populated by the strong and honorable Aven. These bird soldiers favor the high mountains but work equally well on plains.
FAVORED TERRAIN: Mountains
INFANTRY
- Spoiler:
AVEN SQUIRE STABBER-CLASS BIRD SOLDIER
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184992
ROLE: ATTACKER
CRUNCH: 5/5/1/3, flight (40)
FLAVOR: The Squires are young Avens and the main part of Stormpeak's armies. They fight and hunt with great vigor, but lack the experience to properly defend themselves.
BATTLEWISE AVEN – PIKER-CLASS BIRD SOLDIER
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=34464
ROLE: DEFENDER
CRUNCH: 7/2/5/2, flight (40)
FLAVOR: When the enemy armies march up to one of Stormpeaks cities the Battlewise defend it. Battlewise are old and experienced Aven. They are trained to hold ground and defend. They are also trained to protect the Archers.
AVEN ARCHER– ARCHER-CLASS BIRD SOLDIER
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=29691
ROLE: DEFENSE SUPPORT/ATTACK SUPPORT
CRUNCH: 5/7/0/2, flight, ranged (50)
FLAVOR: “VOLLEY!” The Archers are the pride of Aven armies. They change enemy units into living (or cwoaked) pincushions with huge volleys of arrows, using their flight or the protection of the Battlewise to their advantage.
OWL FAMILLIAR – SCOUT-CLASS SUMMON CREATURE
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=202498
ROLE: SCOUT
CRUNCH: 3/0/0/11, flight, scout(6) (30)
FLAVOR: The Owls are Stormpeaks scouts. Usually these flying scouts are used for border patrol, but in concord with the Augurs they are a huge advantage.
AVEN AUGUR – KNIGHT-CLASS BIRD WIZARD
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=132225
ROLE: SUPPORT/THINKAMANCY/SCOUT
CRUNCH: 10/4/4/5, rider, flight, limited thinkamancy, leadership (90)
FLAVOR: “I have seen the future. It does not include you.” The Augur are a class of skilled thinkamancers in service of Stormpeaks nobility. They also serve as officers in Stormpeaks armies. They are considered to be almost as valuable and high ranking as nobles, but cannot claim the rank since they come from the caster-class. In battles they fire bolts of energy, banishing their foes.
- Spoiler:
AVEN ENVOY – SPECIAL A-CLASS BIRD SOLDIER
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=44325
ROLE: SUPPORT
CRUNCH: 6/3/3/3, flight, surveyor, builder (40)
FLAVOR: The Envoys are the messengers of storm peaks nobility, overseeing production and building.
AURORA GRIFFIN – SPECIAL B-CLASS GRIFFIN
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=26284
ROLE: ATTACKER
CRUNCH: 6/7/3/5, flight (40)
FLAVOR: Aurora's are special griffins that live in the Stormy Peaks. Trained simply for ferocity they dive down and kill their enemies. They don't take kindly to units mounting them.
AIR ELEMENTAL – SPECIAL C-CLASS ELEMENTAL
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=189223
ROLE: SIEGE
CRUNCH: 6/8/3/3(11), flight, fast, siege (80)
FLAVOR: Clouds come raging towards a city. As a huge storm envelopes it walls and units alike are torn to shreds. The air elementals are as destructive as the forces of nature, multiplied by ten.
CLOUDCHASER EAGLE – SPECIAL D-CLASS BIRD
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=15778
ROLE: MOUNT/SIEGE
CRUNCH: 15/9(17)/9/12(28), heavy, flight, very fast, lightning breath, siege, mount (250)
FLAVOR: “Most eagles hunt small animals, the cloadchasers hunt magic.” Cloudchasers are one of Stormpeaks greatest weapons. Able to quickly ferry lots of squires and archers to the field and then join the battle with shockamancy and lightning breath.
- Spoiler:
The Aven care not for a large navy. They can all fly over water and find naval combat dishonorable.
thetobias- Head Titan
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Shusagi Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:22 pm
So, today's looking like a bust. Add me on MSN if you're interested and we can work out a time that works. Currently have 3 people interested, but schedules don't totally line up so if more people are interested, I can just pick the ones with the easiest schedules to fit. The test will only last a few days so it's not a really big deal which players join, though the experience will definitely be valuable for players and GMs alike.
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
HerbieRai Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:13 pm
Well, the first thing we need to do is get 3 people near the same timezone. From the introduction posts, most of us are in the US or similar time zones. Twoy and Tobias are in Europe time zones, so I don't think we'll be able to coordinate with them well, unless a few of you have days off. (I'm at -5 GMT for the record)
I guess what we need now is someone willing to join in and depending on their time zone we can get this moving.
Edit: I also work until 5 on weekdays, So if you were hoping to do this during the day you may want to find someone else.
I guess what we need now is someone willing to join in and depending on their time zone we can get this moving.
Edit: I also work until 5 on weekdays, So if you were hoping to do this during the day you may want to find someone else.
HerbieRai- Hobgobwin
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Re: Pre-Beta Test
Shusagi Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:10 pm
This coming weekend is the most likely pre-beta test date. Anybody who wants to assist with the test should post their availability on those two days, add me on MSN, and try to get in touch with me close to this weekend (so Friday would be nice)
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